A/C retrofit from R12 to 134a - Acura Forum

chuckdw · 07-18-07, 12:44 PM

Its time to upgrade from R12 to 134a, has anybody done it ? What do you need to do to access the expansion valve ?

Thanks

shawnhu · 07-19-07, 12:36 PM

I dont think the retrofit requires access to the TX Valve. There's been a few Vigors retrofitted, but it's often done by professionals. You'll need to make sure there's no leaks, then recover the old system. You'll need to make sure all the R12 oil is removed, and then change the valves with the R134a ones. Fill to 80% capacity that of R12, and add R134a PAG oil. Of course you should look into what needs to be replaced in the mean time.

If I recall, the TX Valve is buried under the dash, on the drivers side. If you stick your head under there, where the gas pedal is and look up, you could probably see it. It's been reported that the valve may leak oil and leave a trace of residue.

AcuraVigorOwner · 07-25-07, 01:27 AM

I don't know if you have retro-fitted the system yet or not, but if not, the A/C system is one component that is best left to professionals unless you really know what you are doing. It's one of the few repairs that I believe is well worth paying a professional to do especially if you need a new compressor or dryer. If you do it yourself know exactly what you are doing before you start so you can get it right!

chuckdw · 07-25-07, 10:39 AM

Thanks for the info about the whereabouts of the expansion valve. I was told it should be replaced because r12 & 134a use differant valves. I have ordered; condenser, dryer, x-valve, 0-rings, a/c system flushout liquid & 134a connection fittings.T= about $240 not bad. My condenser had a big leak. I have access to a loaner Vacume pump from Autozone and I have some xperence w a/c. I'll let you all know in a few days how it goes.

shawnhu · 07-25-07, 11:27 AM

Acura actually has a retrofit kit available. I don't know what's exactly in there, but I do know that they have the valves. You take your old ones out, and replace with these. I think the price range was something like $50-70. Doesn't sound like it includes much.

chuckdw · 07-25-07, 12:11 PM

Ya, but my condenser was knarly, so I'm replacing it, and since the system has been open for a while, maybe 1.5 years, I'm doing somewhat, of an a/c overhaul. I bought the car at an auction for 750$ and it looks ok in and out, just needs some work. I had to drop the fuel tank cause the pump was not working. When I conected it to 12V it worked so I put it back. I had already checked the relay & it was ok. Engine runs smooth. Hope to use it for my commuter.

shawnhu · 07-26-07, 11:55 AM

How did you check the main relay? Electronically, or visually? You need a visual to see the cold solder joints. While it's out, reflowing the joints is not a bad idea. You are aware of the infamous Honda Main Relays, yes?

chuckdw · 07-26-07, 01:02 PM

1st I checked that Voltage was getting to connection at top of tank. I new which wires because the Voltage died after 2-5 sec as it should. That checked out ok. I could hear pump running but no fluid came out at line I disconnected from filter. (tank had about 15 gal) sometime during those 3 days of fiddling I removed relay, opened it and applied voltage and tested the contacts and found a less than 1 ohm short on contacts that were made. (I'm a electronic tech and mechanically inclined) Everything seemed ok, but it wasn't pumping. I drained tank, dropped it, removed pump put it in a tub of gas that I had emptied from tank,((at great risk of fire I'm shure)) connected wires to pump than to battery charger (this order is extremly important)and presto it squirted gas under great pressure, so I reinstalled everything and its been working fine. I believe the car set for 1 1/2 years with out being started. Don't know way it wasn't pumping...mysterious...needed priming?

shawnhu · 07-26-07, 06:00 PM

Well, glad it's working now. Those intermittent problems are the worst! That's why we rely on forums, and experience from others to test the 'common' causes first.

Just a thought:
Did you have your radio circuit on when you did the testing? Could it be possible that it was the antenna motor that you heard? I'm a little bit inclined to think that it's still the main relay at fault, just seen too many of these go mis-diagnosed. I didn't believe it either, until I pulled mine out and inspected the cold solder joints.

Shawn

chuckdw · 07-27-07, 10:16 AM

No, it wasn't the antenae motor. I measured Voltage at the tank and heard pump run. For some raeson it was running but not pumping. I wonder if pump has a 1 way valve in it that was stuck so the pump could run without pumping. These pumps put out a lot of pressure not likely to be a cyntrifical pump, perhaps it has a valve or 2 that opens and closes and it was stuck. Anybody ever open one of these 50 psi type fuel pumps ? Old carborator cars use pumps that have only about 5 Psi.

chuckdw · 08-02-07, 10:23 AM

Halleluha!, fuel pump is working, A/C is cold. Now to work on exhaust system. Does anybody know if the resonator is required for inspection or what it does? The car came with out a muffler and the converter looks really old and rusted out. I bought the car from the Government-it was confiscated from a drug smuggler and I think the Fed cut the muffler off to look inside for drugs? The door panels and trunk were taken apart.

shawnhu · 08-03-07, 03:22 AM

Oh my, poor poor Vigor!

The resonator is believed to keep the car more quiet, and perhaps cause the proper amount of back-flow pressure when the car was tuned at the factory. Most states I would guess does not require it for inspection, but you may be looking at degraded performance due to the removal of that unit.

Congrats on the A/C and fuel pump!

shawnhu · 08-03-07, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckdw

Thanks for the info about the whereabouts of the expansion valve. I was told it should be replaced because r12 & 134a use differant valves. I have ordered; condenser, dryer, x-valve, 0-rings, a/c system flushout liquid & 134a connection fittings.T= about $240 not bad. My condenser had a big leak. I have access to a loaner Vacume pump from Autozone and I have some xperence w a/c. I'll let you all know in a few days how it goes.

So what's the step-by-step of how you did it? Found that TX Valve? Where did you get your parts from?

chuckdw · 08-03-07, 10:40 AM

These folks, http://www.diyautoparts.com/ had most of the parts and the condenser came from http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/. I bought a retrofit kit for $60, it consisted of 8oz. oil and lots of O-rings and the 134a fitttings. I could have bought those things individually for a lot less.
1st A/c wouldn't come on so I depressed the filler valve and nothing came out, so I connected regular air to the low pressure side to see if the leak was big, it was big, very audible leak from condenser. 2nd I connected clutch to 12V w lines disconected and found that it blew a lot of air, so it was probly ok.
3rd pulled the compressor and dumped out any oil while turning it, there wasn't any.
4th Used can of a/c Flush and flushed all lines and blews out the Flush w regular air like the can said to.
5th expansion valve is just above and to the right of gas pedel. Its a 90 degree brass fitting with a couple tiny thermal copper tubes (don't know what they are really called) comming out of it. Also it has a round disk on it. Remove the dash panal below stearing wheel for easier access. There is a black plastic cover over the expansion valve w only one screw holding it on.
Put 1/2 the oil in the compresser and 1/2 in the dryer, vacuumed 30 min then charge w 1 can of 134a and waited one day. Next day it was empty, found one of the retrofit valve connecters leaked, replaced it and refilled w one can. Its been working for 2 days so I'll add another 2/3 can today to top off the charge.

07-18-07, 12:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
chuckdw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Car 1: 94 Acura Vigor Car 2: 99 F250 Super Duty 4x4	A/C retrofit from R12 to 134a Its time to upgrade from R12 to 134a, has anybody done it ? What do you need to do to access the expansion valve ? Thanks

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07-19-07, 12:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
shawnhu Vigorous Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York City Age: 28 Posts: 150 Car 1: '93 Vigor Car 2: '92 Vigor Car 3: '92 Vigor	I dont think the retrofit requires access to the TX Valve. There's been a few Vigors retrofitted, but it's often done by professionals. You'll need to make sure there's no leaks, then recover the old system. You'll need to make sure all the R12 oil is removed, and then change the valves with the R134a ones. Fill to 80% capacity that of R12, and add R134a PAG oil. Of course you should look into what needs to be replaced in the mean time. If I recall, the TX Valve is buried under the dash, on the drivers side. If you stick your head under there, where the gas pedal is and look up, you could probably see it. It's been reported that the valve may leak oil and leave a trace of residue.

07-25-07, 01:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
AcuraVigorOwner Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 31 Car 1: 1994 Acura Vigor GS	I don't know if you have retro-fitted the system yet or not, but if not, the A/C system is one component that is best left to professionals unless you really know what you are doing. It's one of the few repairs that I believe is well worth paying a professional to do especially if you need a new compressor or dryer. If you do it yourself know exactly what you are doing before you start so you can get it right!

07-25-07, 10:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
chuckdw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Car 1: 94 Acura Vigor Car 2: 99 F250 Super Duty 4x4	Thanks for the info about the whereabouts of the expansion valve. I was told it should be replaced because r12 & 134a use differant valves. I have ordered; condenser, dryer, x-valve, 0-rings, a/c system flushout liquid & 134a connection fittings.T= about $240 not bad. My condenser had a big leak. I have access to a loaner Vacume pump from Autozone and I have some xperence w a/c. I'll let you all know in a few days how it goes.

07-25-07, 11:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
shawnhu Vigorous Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York City Age: 28 Posts: 150 Car 1: '93 Vigor Car 2: '92 Vigor Car 3: '92 Vigor	Acura actually has a retrofit kit available. I don't know what's exactly in there, but I do know that they have the valves. You take your old ones out, and replace with these. I think the price range was something like $50-70. Doesn't sound like it includes much.

07-25-07, 12:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
chuckdw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Car 1: 94 Acura Vigor Car 2: 99 F250 Super Duty 4x4	Ya, but my condenser was knarly, so I'm replacing it, and since the system has been open for a while, maybe 1.5 years, I'm doing somewhat, of an a/c overhaul. I bought the car at an auction for 750$ and it looks ok in and out, just needs some work. I had to drop the fuel tank cause the pump was not working. When I conected it to 12V it worked so I put it back. I had already checked the relay & it was ok. Engine runs smooth. Hope to use it for my commuter.

07-26-07, 11:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
shawnhu Vigorous Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York City Age: 28 Posts: 150 Car 1: '93 Vigor Car 2: '92 Vigor Car 3: '92 Vigor	How did you check the main relay? Electronically, or visually? You need a visual to see the cold solder joints. While it's out, reflowing the joints is not a bad idea. You are aware of the infamous Honda Main Relays, yes?

07-26-07, 01:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
chuckdw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Car 1: 94 Acura Vigor Car 2: 99 F250 Super Duty 4x4	1st I checked that Voltage was getting to connection at top of tank. I new which wires because the Voltage died after 2-5 sec as it should. That checked out ok. I could hear pump running but no fluid came out at line I disconnected from filter. (tank had about 15 gal) sometime during those 3 days of fiddling I removed relay, opened it and applied voltage and tested the contacts and found a less than 1 ohm short on contacts that were made. (I'm a electronic tech and mechanically inclined) Everything seemed ok, but it wasn't pumping. I drained tank, dropped it, removed pump put it in a tub of gas that I had emptied from tank,((at great risk of fire I'm shure)) connected wires to pump than to battery charger (this order is extremly important)and presto it squirted gas under great pressure, so I reinstalled everything and its been working fine. I believe the car set for 1 1/2 years with out being started. Don't know way it wasn't pumping...mysterious...needed priming?

07-26-07, 06:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
shawnhu Vigorous Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York City Age: 28 Posts: 150 Car 1: '93 Vigor Car 2: '92 Vigor Car 3: '92 Vigor	Well, glad it's working now. Those intermittent problems are the worst! That's why we rely on forums, and experience from others to test the 'common' causes first. Just a thought: Did you have your radio circuit on when you did the testing? Could it be possible that it was the antenna motor that you heard? I'm a little bit inclined to think that it's still the main relay at fault, just seen too many of these go mis-diagnosed. I didn't believe it either, until I pulled mine out and inspected the cold solder joints. Shawn

07-27-07, 10:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
chuckdw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Car 1: 94 Acura Vigor Car 2: 99 F250 Super Duty 4x4	No, it wasn't the antenae motor. I measured Voltage at the tank and heard pump run. For some raeson it was running but not pumping. I wonder if pump has a 1 way valve in it that was stuck so the pump could run without pumping. These pumps put out a lot of pressure not likely to be a cyntrifical pump, perhaps it has a valve or 2 that opens and closes and it was stuck. Anybody ever open one of these 50 psi type fuel pumps ? Old carborator cars use pumps that have only about 5 Psi.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

08-02-07, 10:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
chuckdw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Car 1: 94 Acura Vigor Car 2: 99 F250 Super Duty 4x4	Halleluha!, fuel pump is working, A/C is cold. Now to work on exhaust system. Does anybody know if the resonator is required for inspection or what it does? The car came with out a muffler and the converter looks really old and rusted out. I bought the car from the Government-it was confiscated from a drug smuggler and I think the Fed cut the muffler off to look inside for drugs? The door panels and trunk were taken apart.

08-03-07, 03:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
shawnhu Vigorous Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York City Age: 28 Posts: 150 Car 1: '93 Vigor Car 2: '92 Vigor Car 3: '92 Vigor	Oh my, poor poor Vigor! The resonator is believed to keep the car more quiet, and perhaps cause the proper amount of back-flow pressure when the car was tuned at the factory. Most states I would guess does not require it for inspection, but you may be looking at degraded performance due to the removal of that unit. Congrats on the A/C and fuel pump!

08-03-07, 10:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
chuckdw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Car 1: 94 Acura Vigor Car 2: 99 F250 Super Duty 4x4	These folks, http://www.diyautoparts.com/ had most of the parts and the condenser came from http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/. I bought a retrofit kit for $60, it consisted of 8oz. oil and lots of O-rings and the 134a fitttings. I could have bought those things individually for a lot less. 1st A/c wouldn't come on so I depressed the filler valve and nothing came out, so I connected regular air to the low pressure side to see if the leak was big, it was big, very audible leak from condenser. 2nd I connected clutch to 12V w lines disconected and found that it blew a lot of air, so it was probly ok. 3rd pulled the compressor and dumped out any oil while turning it, there wasn't any. 4th Used can of a/c Flush and flushed all lines and blews out the Flush w regular air like the can said to. 5th expansion valve is just above and to the right of gas pedel. Its a 90 degree brass fitting with a couple tiny thermal copper tubes (don't know what they are really called) comming out of it. Also it has a round disk on it. Remove the dash panal below stearing wheel for easier access. There is a black plastic cover over the expansion valve w only one screw holding it on. Put 1/2 the oil in the compresser and 1/2 in the dryer, vacuumed 30 min then charge w 1 can of 134a and waited one day. Next day it was empty, found one of the retrofit valve connecters leaked, replaced it and refilled w one can. Its been working for 2 days so I'll add another 2/3 can today to top off the charge.