Allow Loaded Firearms in National Parks??

[duckdog]

This is a change in policy which, believe it or not, I am not in favor of.

Casper Star-Tribune Online - Wyoming

KALISPELL, Mont. -- A controversial plan that would allow tourists to carry loaded guns in national parks is on hold, as pressure from critics has forced an extension of the public comment period through Aug. 8.

Floated first by Congress and later considered by the White House, the plan would remove the current rule stating guns are allowed, but they must be properly stowed.

The new proposal would replace the existing policy with a wide range of rules.

It was to reach decision makers early this summer, following public comment.

But on June 26, Sen. Daniel Akaka, D-Hawaii, and Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., wrote Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne requesting an extension.

Their letter stressed that the "department's proposal is ardently opposed by current and former park ranger professionals who have countless years of experience in park management and resource protection."

They also wrote that the public comment extension was necessary because of recent Supreme Court rulings on gun regulation.

Critics including the National Parks Conservation Association, the Association of National Park Rangers, the U.S. Park Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police, and the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees.

They have argued allowing guns in parks will increase violent encounters between visitors and will lead to additional wildlife poaching. Tourists scared by a noise in the night, critic argue, might be compelled to open fire in crowded campgrounds.

They also have questioned how the move might affect international tourism at what are now considered "family friendly" national parks.

In April, seven former directors of the National Park Service wrote Kempthorne in opposition to the change. They noted "in all our years with the National Park Service, we experienced very few instances in which this (current) limited regulation created confusion or resistance. There is no evidence that any potential problems that one can imagine arising from the existing regulations might overwhelm the good they are known to do."

But the National Rifle Association, which helped write the new plan, and other proponents say citizens must be allowed to carry guns for their own safety. They also argue the right on constitutional grounds.

In announcing the proposal now under review, Kempthorne said the new rules would take into account recent changes to laws governing guns in federal buildings, as well as gun laws in individual states.

It would, he said, preserve the "values of our public lands, including the safety and enjoyment of all visitors, while enhancing local control and respecting an individual's Second Amendment right to bear arms."

The current regulations date to the 1930s, and were last updated during the Reagan administration.

Among those in Congress who initially backed the proposed changes were Montana's top Democrats, Sen. Max Baucus and Sen. Jon Tester, both of whom signed a letter asking for consideration of the rule change.

The issue of guns in national parks arose earlier this year in Wyoming when Chief U.S. District Judge William Downes sentenced a Montana man to four years federal imprisonment for being a felon in possession of a firearm and poaching a bull elk in Gallatin County, Mont., and dragging the head to his pickup inside Yellowstone National Park.

The federal judicial district of Wyoming includes all of Yellowstone National Park, including park land in Idaho and Montana.

"You took a magnificent bull elk in a United States park, then engaged in acts to cover up your crime," Downes said before sentencing Michael David Belderrain.

"Your case represents a classic public policy answer to the question: 'Why do we not want to have people with indiscriminate access to firearms in a national park?'

"And your crime answers that question," he said. "We don't."

Belderrain has filed an appeal with the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.

Instead, I have noticed that almost every park ranger in Teton and Yellowstone National Parks is carrying a weapon. Lets leave the rules as they are to discourage poaching and road rage, and have fewer rangers in the forests and parks carrying guns as well.

Discussion?

[coldfire]

Seems to me that those who lobby for less restrictions on gun control are jumping on the opportunity that the recent overturning of the gun ban in DC has opened. Especially since the decision was based on the supreme court's interpretation of the second amendment.

I would like to see some kind of statistic that clearly shows how many people are killed/injured by animal attacks in national parks compared with how many people are killed/injured by things like falling down and hitting a rock or something like that.

Until I see those statistics, I reserve the right to not make a call on this one.

[Slynky]

I'll open the "for" discussion. It's the same reason I get irritated about working in a federal building. You can't even have one sitting in the trunk of your car. So, if you want to carry a weapon in the car (for whatever reason) for any need that may arise between home and work (and any other place you might go in between, you can't take one.

Let's suppose I'm going on a two-week trip. Gonna save some money staying in cheap motels. Also, plan to hit a few parks on my vacation. I have to leave my gun at home because I can never take it to a park. So, if some assholes sees an "easy out-of-state tag" to take advantage of and decide to come through the door of the motel, I can't do much about it.

Or if we're asleep in a tent...

And, like always, anyone PLANNING something bad in a park doesn't care if there's a law/rule or not.

The only downside is the "loss of temper" instances that may happen.

So...

And don't get me wrong, it's not THAT big of a deal. Haven't been to a federal park in years.

[duckdog]

Actually, Chuck, you can carry a gun. It just has to be unloaded and stowed according to guidelines.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by duckdog

Actually, Chuck, you can carry a gun. It just has to be unloaded and stowed according to guidelines.

Then the article isn't very clear on just what's being discussed. (or maybe I am illiterate...and if that's spelled wrong because I'm illiterate, then I'll change it to "Maybe I'm too dumb!" )

[coldfire]

Originally Posted by duckdog

Actually, Chuck, you can carry a gun. It just has to be unloaded and stowed according to guidelines.

What does stowed mean exactly?

[duckdog]

Originally Posted by coldfire

What does stowed mean exactly?

I can't remember exactly, since I almost never carry when traveling anymore. I can look it up.

[95Gs-R]

I think they mean by it as the gun being in the trunk in a case. But this would suck, did the ranger grow %*##%$ or something, what about self deffence if a animal charges you when your camping?

[Ska]

Carrying guns in a federal park just strikes me as a horrible idea. How many people get spooked easily when they're camping? Just about everyone. That can't possibly be a good combo with an itchy trigger finger and campgrounds where there's other people around.

Ok, the possibility for running into an animal EXISTS, but what are the odds of actually being in that situation on a government campground? I've camped all over the eastern seaboard, and have never so much as encountered ONE animal that didn't run away right when it saw you. Bad idea that stands to do a lot more harm than good, IMO.

[Slider]

I'm going to go with bad idea on this one. I don't usually care too much about gun laws, but I don't see how any good could come from this. If that means a couple people get eaten by mountain lions, too bad. Run faster next time.

[duckdog]

Originally Posted by Slider

I'm going to go with bad idea on this one. I don't usually care too much about gun laws, but I don't see how any good could come from this. If that means a couple people get eaten by mountain lions, too bad. Run faster next time.

Or at least learn to not take pictures of the wildlife with the kids from three feet away.

[Slider]

Zoom > ending up wildlife food

[duck]

There are few places in this nation where "guns" have not been allowed, and Parks are one of those. I say keep it that way, but allow the Rangers to be armed.

And any of you idiots who think you are big and bad just because you are behind a steering wheel need to be jailed anyway for stupidity, road rage or not.

[95Gs-R]

Originally Posted by Slider

I'm going to go with bad idea on this one. I don't usually care too much about gun laws, but I don't see how any good could come from this. If that means a couple people get eaten by mountain lions, too bad. Run faster next time.

RUUUN FOREST RUUUUUUNNN

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by 95Gs-R

RUUUN FOREST RUUUUUUNNN

Or, "Run, florist, run!"