brake shudder after new rotors and pads (long)

[hayaku]

well.. the brake job was relatively easy... i went with brembo blanks and axxis deluxe pads.

my old rotors and pads were oem. they were down to about 3mm, rotors looked like they were turned at least once from the outside edging higher then were the pads bite... i had a brake shudder every time i stepped on the brake pedal at all speeds with the oem setup. nothing in the steering wheel, only pedal feedback. I had originally chalked that up as warped rotors as the rotors and pads were so worn down...

then i replaced everything and lubricated all parts accordingly. everything torqued to specs. drove it out of the drive way to bed in the pads, went down the street and pushed the brake pedal to stop at the intersection on my way to go bed the pads... immediate brake shudder. hmmm... i thought.. i drove around for a bit, all less then 2 miles total as i tested it at various speeds. all had kick-back in the pedal only. nothing in the steering wheel and even when i shifted it into neutral to brake... the pedal kickback was there.

drove it home, lifted it back up and yanked all the wheels off. rotors were still perfectly smooth. everything was mounted flat and square to the hub as it should be. nothing was out of place at all 4 corners...

so i pulled out my brake fluid tester. it's a simple tester. green (good) as 0-1.5% of moisture, yellow (marginal) for 1.5-3.0% of moisture, and red (failed) for greater then 3.0% of moisture. which means i could be at the brink of fluid failure. the fluid is very dark (looks like failure to me...)

so now i'm thinking ABS is kicking in under all circumstances but not lighting the dash indicator... my pressure flusher needs an adapter cap for the master cylinder so i can flush the brakes but won't arrive till later this week.

if i get a chance, i'm going to pull the fuse on the ABS system and try braking with it... if no kick back, then it confirms ABS is triggering whenever i'm pressing the pedal.

either way, i have to flush the fluid. hopefully i don't need a new ABS modulator unit.

anyone else experience something like this?

[s0ldiA]

I haven't changed my brakes yet but I get the same thing. The only difference is that when they get hotter, they start shaking worse. The hotter the brakes get, the harder it is to control the car. I hate my Acura! I have never seen so many problems with one car before. My old lady still loves the car. She doesn't understand the kinda shit I have to go through with this car.

So what if it is the ABS pump? If you pull the fuse out, will this throw a code up? If it does throw a code, how can we get it reset?

I want to change all my brake rotors and pads soon. I want to go with EBC rotors and pads. The pads I want are the green stuff pads. What do you think about those? I don't want to do any work if it isn't going to fix the problem.

[harminder247]

Originally Posted by s0ldiA

I haven't changed my brakes yet but I get the same thing. The only difference is that when they get hotter, they start shaking worse. The hotter the brakes get, the harder it is to control the car. I hate my Acura! I have never seen so many problems with one car before. My old lady still loves the car. She doesn't understand the kinda shit I have to go through with this car.

So what if it is the ABS pump? If you pull the fuse out, will this throw a code up? If it does throw a code, how can we get it reset?

I want to change all my brake rotors and pads soon. I want to go with EBC rotors and pads. The pads I want are the green stuff pads. What do you think about those? I don't want to do any work if it isn't going to fix the problem.

im about 80 precent sure its gotta be your rotors that need to be resurfaced, got mines done this weekend and its back to normal cost me 16 bucks only becuase i poped em off da car, it took about 30 mins VERY EASY dont pay 60+ to have shop do it, do it yourself and turst me mines did that also

[hayaku]

Update:

The 30 Amp ABS pump fuse doesn't stop the pulsation. The ABS/TCS light goes on when you push the brakes, but didn't light right away on startup.

The 20 Amp ABS fuse didn't stop the pulsation either. The ABS/TCS lights were lit immediately upon startup.

Neither of which stopped my pedal from the kick-back feeling when braking.

Things I did notice: when the brakes are cooler, there was less pedal kick-back then when hot... even at higher speeds. It even happens in reverse.

I'm going to flush my fluid this weekend since my adapter has finally arrived.

So i had a long chat with some of my buddies in the brake industry (stoptech, alcon, and brembo engineers). We're on the same page as its mainly the fluid with the higher then normal level of moisture in it... unfortunately I'm not able to get the car closer to them to use a real measuring device to get the moisture content reading out of my fluid. They also informed me they've seen tons of different behaviors that will baffle just about anyone when the fluid is bad... bad fluid will also contaiminate the booster, master cylinder, metal tubing and calipers too...

I'll flush this weekend and report back futher..

sOldiA: just put the fuses back in and the error codes will go away...

[Pole Position]

After you removed the rotors, how were the condition of the hub units?

Whenever I put new rotors on or after resurfacing, I clean the hub units with a die grinder because they usually have rust/dirt on them. It is just a way to ensure the rotors goes on flat.

When you get the kick-back pedal feel, can you hear the ABS pump going off?

Like you said, flush the system and see how it goes. Good luck.

[s0ldiA]

Originally Posted by hayaku

Update:

The 30 Amp ABS pump fuse doesn't stop the pulsation. The ABS/TCS light goes on when you push the brakes, but didn't light right away on startup.

The 20 Amp ABS fuse didn't stop the pulsation either. The ABS/TCS lights were lit immediately upon startup.

Neither of which stopped my pedal from the kick-back feeling when braking.

Things I did notice: when the brakes are cooler, there was less pedal kick-back then when hot... even at higher speeds. It even happens in reverse.

I'm going to flush my fluid this weekend since my adapter has finally arrived.

So i had a long chat with some of my buddies in the brake industry (stoptech, alcon, and brembo engineers). We're on the same page as its mainly the fluid with the higher then normal level of moisture in it... unfortunately I'm not able to get the car closer to them to use a real measuring device to get the moisture content reading out of my fluid. They also informed me they've seen tons of different behaviors that will baffle just about anyone when the fluid is bad... bad fluid will also contaiminate the booster, master cylinder, metal tubing and calipers too...

I'll flush this weekend and report back futher..

sOldiA: just put the fuses back in and the error codes will go away...

Hey if you flush the system let me know the result, please.

[hayaku]

Update: Problem resolved. Fluid on the brink of failure cannot hold proper pressure and overheats rapidly.... might as well classified it as failed fluid imo...

[Carbuff]

That brake fluid was NASTY!

Brake fluid should be flushed every three years MAX regardless of mileage since it absorbs moisture.

Hayaku, I hope you flush the brake fluid more often in your Porsche Cup car! The car I use on track events gets it's system changed out two weeks before each track session.

[hayaku]

Originally Posted by Carbuff

That brake fluid was NASTY!

Brake fluid should be flushed every three years MAX regardless of mileage since it absorbs moisture.

Hayaku, I hope you flush the brake fluid more often in your Porsche Cup car! The car I use on track events gets it's system changed out two weeks before each track session.

LOL... i just got this car as a daily driver from a friend... so from now on, it gets proper treatment... btw, the spec is every 2 years

my race car gets flushed very often as well.. before each track/race event regardless of condition.. we don't take any chances with anything...

[harminder247]

is their a diy? i dunno know how i would do it please help i wanan do mines

[hayaku]

Originally Posted by harminder247

is their a diy? i dunno know how i would do it please help i wanan do mines

simple:

- buy a motive power bleeder with the import adapter (1101)
- lift the car and remove all wheels
- use a turkey baster to remove as much old fluid from the master cylinder as possible
- attach the motive power bleeder to the master cylinder.
- test the pressure to 10-15 lbs. if it leaks air, tighten the adapter cap more.
- make sure the pressure can hold at 10-15 lbs for 30-40 secs
- now open the bleeder and pour in your fresh brake fluid.
- if you are doing a full flush, i reccomend 32 oz.
- start at the driver's front wheel.
- attach a 10mm closed wrench over the bleed nipple
- attach the clear hose that comes with the pressure bleeder over the nipple
- crack open the bleed nipple about 1/4 turn only
- bleed till you see the new clear fluid or untill no more bubbles.
- use a rubber mallet to bang on the caliper to free up air bubbles
- its import you get no more air bubbles.
- lock the bleed nipple when done
- repeat bleed steps for passenger front next
- repeat bleed steps for passenger rear next
- finish at driver's rear.

thats it... about 30 mins if you are used to it.. 60-90 mins if you've never done it before...

[rocketman33]

Too avoid the stuttering you guys are talking about make SURE the rotors are cut ON THE CAR. There is a brake lathe that attaches to the hub and cuts them on the car which is MUCH more effective. So you never take the rotor off the car.

[hayaku]

Originally Posted by rocketman33

Too avoid the stuttering you guys are talking about make SURE the rotors are cut ON THE CAR. There is a brake lathe that attaches to the hub and cuts them on the car which is MUCH more effective. So you never take the rotor off the car.

This happened to me with BRAND NEW ROTORS. and i measured with a micrometer and they are in spec with good runout. Turning the rotors whether on or off the hub would have made ZERO difference.