Mobil 1 in new '04 TL

[hondacuraworld]

Remember also that half of the reason that you change oil is because it gets dirty. Byproducts of combustion still accumulate in oil no matter what it's made of.

See these discussions can get worse than politics

[TunerTL-S]

ok, so im still confussed now. is it ok to run 7500 miles on amsoil 5030 with a fram x2 filter?

[hondacuraworld]

Depends who you're asking I guess.....

[TunerTL-S]

hey tim,

so basically you recommend 3500 mile intervals regardless of what manual (7500) or the type of oil(synthic) use?

[hondacuraworld]

Yep. Remember that I don't have the "authority" to speak for Acura corporate, but it is my feeling that all very long service intervals are nothing more than a sales tool, and that goes for all car manufacturers.

IMO you can't do better than good old dinosaur oil, Acura filter, and 3K changes for most driving conditions.

[need4spd]

I hope you all know that the owners manual says in the break in section of the 04 TL NOT to change until the MID says so.

I guess it is because of the MOLY break in, not for extended life of the oil as a marketing gimmick.

I am a true beliver of changing the oil every 3k miles or 6 months, whichever is first, even with synthetic. But for the break in, I will have to have cool nerves and wait for the MID. ???

[hondacuraworld]

Sorry, I did forget to mention that.........

[gtkman]

Hate to disagree, but I must. It's been proven that Synthetic oils can be used for extended periods of time and milage. It's not a sales tool...it's simply fact. You can do much better than Dino oils. Suggest you get a copy of the motor oil bible by Michael Kaufman. It's a very complete and professional publication backed by research and oil analysis. You will see that synthetics can and do out perform Dino oils significantly. The 3 million $ question is......can a real car guy go 7,500 to 10,000 miles on quality synthetic oil without getting the urge at 3000 or 5000 miles to change the oil? If not.....Synthetics are probably not for you unless you drive in VERY cold or VERY HOT conditions (towing). If you really want the answers to your oil questions.....get the bible.

[hondacuraworld]

Regardless of the countless engineers studies that you can cite, I would probably be more inclined to come over to your school of thought if I ever saw an Acura engine fail for any reason. But I haven't. Not even semi-abused vehicles with well over 300,000 miles. Therefore I conclude that synthetic oils have very little benefit to anyone driving under non-severe conditions.

I've been in the car business for 15 years, and I'll be the last person to disuade anyone from doing right by their car. I've read of people having their oil analyzed by laboratories for all kinds of statistical research, etc. and I don't get it. It's wasted money and useless overanalysis.

Basically the moral of the story, if it feels right, do it

[gtkman]

Please be clear......I am not saying oil analysis is necessary. Oil anaylsis was done as part of the research to prove synthetic oils can last up to 25,000 miles without being changed. Filters need to be changed at appropriate intervals, but the oil can still provide excellent protection. Do the math.......synthetic oil may be less expensive and many feel they are doing right by their car by providing superior protection for less $ than Dino oils. Many large trucking/taxi fleets are on the extended change interval program with synthetics to save $$ and offer superior protection at the same time. Basically....I am not motivated by "If it feels right, do it". I choose to listen to the experts who know much more than you or I on this very technical subject.....

[hondacuraworld]

You're not going to get me to agree to the fact that ANY oil will last 25,000 miles in an engine unless you're basing it on the actual properties of the oil. The actual properties of the oil don't turn the oil black. Carbon and by-products of combustion do. If you've ever had the opportunity to change oil in a car powered by CNG, then you know that the oil coming out is as clean as the oil going in, and in which circumstance that case may have some merit (not that I'd ever try that interval myself). Oil changes don't only work because the oil breaks down, think of it as dialysis for the engine.

I've had the opportunity to work in taxi maintenance and repair (on and off for a few years), and here again with such applications you're talking about the highest extremes in wear and service. Those cars are generally kept in service 24 hours a day, changing two shifts/drivers per day. City taxis generally see anywhere from 150 to 300 miles per shift in busy areas, which equates to 300-600 miles per day in stop-and-go traffic. You're obviously not going to see the same wear patterns on a regular car. I've seen parts wear on a taxi that you'd never see wear on any other car.....steering wheels worn to the metal core at the 10:00 position, inner fenderwells that disintegrate from road debris, gas tank necks with worn threads.....so obviously engines are going to see even worse abuse.

When I said, "if it feels right, do it", I was implying that synthetics are of the same benefit in most circumstances as that your car rides and sounds so much better after a full interior/exterior detail. It's psychological, and as I said, "if it feels right, do it".

Enjoying the discourse here, hope you are as well.

[gtkman]

Hello again....and I am enjoying the conversation on this subject. Please though...read my comments carefully. I did not say ANY oil will last 25,000 miles. Some extended drain synthetics can and will last 25,000 in the average car. There are many reasons why oil breaks down. Just a few of which are; heat & cold, burn off, Viscosity retention properties, Contamination control, acid control, film strength, combustion contamination et. In every reason listed above, synthetics are considerably superior to petroleum base stocks. I for one feel that extreme service or not, synthetics are vastly superior to Dino oil, and if they don't cost me additional $ out of my pocket.....why not use it? I have the advantage of superior protection, Less frequent trips to the Dealer, Quick Lube, or oil dump station if I do the changes myself. The 3000 mile oil change interval is a real controversy. The U.S. is the only country that uses this as a "standard". Europe is on a 9,000 mile drain interval and will be increasing this soon. Why is the U.S. on 3000 miles? Many feel it is marketing and the oil companies desire to sell more oil? The quick lubers are certainly not going to challenge the 3000 mile change interval. I feel we all need to consider the benefits of synthetics and learn how to best use them. Changing oil every 3000 miles or 3 months is insane and a waste of money, time & oil. I hate being taken advantage of and there is considerable research that says we are being duped by the 3000 mile oil change. If you want a very good resource that delves into synthetic vs Dino oil and exposes the myth of the 3000 mile oil change interval......here it is Email: info@motor-oil-bible.com

[TunerTL-S]

great thread guys!
this should be a sticky

[Pure Adrenaline]

Originally posted by gmckinley
Acura talks about Syn oil in the owner guide....

It is recommended not to change your oil in your new Acura until 3500 miles...at this point decide on oil type.

Contrats on your new TL... Nice vehicle.

Yes, yes. They say that.

At 1,7xx miles, I checked the oil. DIRTY. It wouldn't have made it past 2,000 miles. I don't know what the fvck Acura was thinking when they said don't change it 'til 3,500. Changed it to synthetic and has been running on Mobil1 since then.

[hondacuraworld]

Gonna break your post up a bit to reply to a few points :

I did not say ANY oil will last 25,000 miles. Some extended drain synthetics can and will last 25,000 in the average car. There are many reasons why oil breaks down. Just a few of which are; heat & cold, burn off, Viscosity retention properties, Contamination control, acid control, film strength, combustion contamination et. In every reason listed above, synthetics are considerably superior to petroleum base stocks. I for one feel that extreme service or not, synthetics are vastly superior to Dino oil, and if they don't cost me additional $ out of my pocket.....why not use it?

Agreed about the cost if it makes you feel good to use, but IMO it just looks to me like you're cutting corners or attempting to by increasing the change interval if that's the reason you go to a synthetic in the first place. And I hear you loud and clear about not every oil being able to go 25K, in fact I don't think any oil can.

If you think about it, your previous comment about engines today having tighter tolerances, etc therefore having less combustion deposits in the oil also goes hand in hand in a way with what you're saying about the change interval. Remember that this is a generalization, do a cylinder leakdown check on many new cars, especially GM, Ford, and Jaguar (my personal experience), and the results may surprise you.

What I'm arguing here is the law of diminishing returns if you use a synthetic vs a dino oil at the same change interval (meaning no perceptible difference based on engine failure rate), and wear resulting from particulates carried in the oil if left in the engine for extended periods of time (extending the oil changes because you use synthetic), two completely different issues. In relation to the latter, synthetic oil is not going to wick away the gunk that normally floats around in oil nor destroy it like a viscous version of Oxy Clean.

You commented:

I have the advantage of superior protection, Less frequent trips to the Dealer, Quick Lube, or oil dump station if I do the changes myself. The 3000 mile oil change interval is a real controversy. The U.S. is the only country that uses this as a "standard". Europe is on a 9,000 mile drain interval and will be increasing this soon. Why is the U.S. on 3000 miles? Many feel it is marketing and the oil companies desire to sell more oil? The quick lubers are certainly not going to challenge the 3000 mile change interval. I feel we all need to consider the benefits of synthetics and learn how to best use them. Changing oil every 3000 miles or 3 months is insane and a waste of money, time & oil. I hate being taken advantage of and there is considerable research that says we are being duped by the 3000 mile oil change.

Here's another myth I can disspel from the standpoint of an Acura dealer. Oil changes are NOT a profit center where a dealership is concerned, think of it this way. If you have a dealership giving a 24.95 oil change, by the time the parts cost is paid for, the technician's labor, pay the writer at the desk to write it up, take into account the fixed overhead of the detail crew to wash your car, and possibly provide refreshments in the waiting lounge, where are they making money? They're not, at least not enough to consider it a "scam". You figure that the average hand wash alone will cost $10-$15 in most places, so the oil change in reality is ten bucks, maybe a bit more. Couple that with the fact that you've got a factory trained tech under the hood of your car, it's really a bargain. I'm leaving the quick lube places out of the equation because they use inferior filters and cheap labor, and who wants to trust a premium vehicle to such conditions, I know I wouldn't.

Now remember that I've been taking selling oil as part of my employ in the car biz for the last 15 years, and I've seen a lot of engines. A hell of a lot of engines. I would therefore conclude that if there is a case of synthetic oil prolonging the life of an engine, it's more likely because the person that spends $5.00 on a quart of oil is simply more likely to take better care of his/her car than the person that buys recycled oil and cheap filters.