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2nd Gen RL 2005-08 RL info is found here!

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-30-04, 01:26 AM
 
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I know which vehicle I prefer to be driving. I don't need twin-turbo's or super-chargers. I get everything I want (and more) from Acura's naturally aspirated V6. In addition to the amazing performance and road-holding, I get sumptuous luxury. Heck, I'm still friggin' smiling!

"Life is a sexually transmitted terminal desease". The RL's handling sure helps on the BIG downward spiral
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post #17 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 01:31 AM
 
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post #18 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proe
I heard about that and I do not think that was true as stock R34 GTR is twin-turboed and it weighs 3672 lbs. It has 5.2s for 0-62mph and I believe it has 13.5s for 0-130mph, and that is why Skyline is call the Fastest Mass Production Car in the World. Come on, you think RL has any chance against R34 GT-R on any track.
I don't think the superiority of the skyline's straight line performance is in question...
I believe that the RL in question was besting the lap-times of the GTR not the drag strip times.

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post #19 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 03:29 PM
 
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I think I need to point out some obvious.
1. In any track, there will be some straight line acceleration.
2. There will have corners that you need to reduce speed in order to attack them aggressively and safely.
Now, RL has weak acceleration at low RPM since it is not twin-turbocharged, so it requires more distance to get up to speed. More distance means more time.
And, the braking is average at most due to its weight, so RL will need to brake early to prevent heavy under steer, which is the trait for heavy-ass cars like audi S4 when you push it to limit. Brake early means slower speed entering corners.
Now, this is more likely what actually happened at track. RL never got up the speed at straight line as it gets up to speed slow, and just when it finally got up the speed there is the first corner, so RL has to slow down early to enter the first corner. The speed of corner exit is slow as RL does not have punch at low RPM, remember? The scenario repeats itself around the track.
In summary, RL is slow at straight line and slow at both into and out of the corners, so RL's avg track speed is bound to be slower than Skyline. Slower avg track speed means slower avg lap time. Got it?
However, I will say this. It is possible that honda had different spec on the car, but again, we are not getting it, so what good would it be.
Or, better yet, the track only had turns, which if that was the case I have to say honda spent all those money for nothing, and we have bunch of suckers.

After many years of R&D, honda only came out with something that is on par with a AWD system came out 15 years ago. So, what is so wonderful about the new SHAWD from honda?
The reality is that the new rear active steer system from nissan would be some ground breaking technology if it is proven to be as good and useful as it seems on paper since no other manufacturers have come out with any similar technology.
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post #20 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 04:11 PM
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The point is that the SH-AWD system on the RL will allow it to take corners without understeering. "And, the braking is average at most due to its weight, so RL will need to brake early to prevent heavy under steer, which is the trait for heavy-ass cars like audi S4 when you push it to limit. Brake early means slower speed entering corners." "Heavy-ass" cars do not understeer; they oversteer. The RL does not have to brake early because the SH-AWD system pulls it right through a turn. The mere fact that a luxury sedan can keep up with a dedicated sports car is astounding.

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post #21 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 05:01 PM
 
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My point is, I wouldn't buy a Nissan.
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post #22 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 06:46 PM
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the fact that we are even mentioning the RL's performance capability in the same breath as the venerable GTR's is quite an achievment for Acura...

I have absolutely no proof of the SHawd's capability against the GTR... I was just relaying some "grape viney" info...

proe,

I'm not trying to diminish the GTR, nor am I suggesting the RL is the best thing since sliced bread... If you need to have your 4door lux sedan perform like a sports car, you have my blessing to wait for one to come out or pay the premium to buy one that already exists (the likes of the e55, M5, etc...).

my personal opinion is, that for $50G's you will be hard pressed to find a vehicle with as much value as the RL.

to address the additional points that you added to your first post... the RL has adaquate brakes for it's intended purpose... it already is "upgraded" from previous honda products... and Honda brakes have always been a sore point for people that want to push the limits of the car...

twin-turbos are also unlikely... and turbocharging is not the solution to everything... not only is it extremely expensive to implement, it reduces reliability and increases operation cost... also, honda is not one to turbo charge anything (although I believe they have turbo'ed some of their tiny micro cars in Japan and a few of their motorcycles).

yes, maybe there is a bit of hypebole in the coronation of SHawd as a groundbreaking technology... but you may be a little misinformed if you think the technology is merely "on par" with the AWD systems that preceeded it... perhaps it is only an incremental improvement over other AWD systems, but the actual technology is only part of the story. the use of it in a luxury sedan to improve handling/performance/safety is also part of the innovation.

but even so, it doesn't have to be for everybody.

sorry to hear that the RL was not a good fit for you. I would love to hear what car you eventually settle on... and your reasons for the decision.

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post #23 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 09:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder5786
The point is that the SH-AWD system on the RL will allow it to take corners without understeering. "And, the braking is average at most due to its weight, so RL will need to brake early to prevent heavy under steer, which is the trait for heavy-ass cars like audi S4 when you push it to limit. Brake early means slower speed entering corners." "Heavy-ass" cars do not understeer; they oversteer. The RL does not have to brake early because the SH-AWD system pulls it right through a turn. The mere fact that a luxury sedan can keep up with a dedicated sports car is astounding.
I will assume you know nothing about the AWD cars, and weight transfer during cornering. Let me say this, most AWD cars on dry pavement has under steer as a defining dynamic trait.
Reason for under steer is because AWD has grips on all four tires, not jsut two tires, so you will not be able to transfer your weight as you can with RWD. And that is why it is pretty hard or almost impossible to drift AWD cars as you can relatively easy with RWD.
As you enter the corner, the weight is transfered to you front outer tire, and it is getting harder and harder to turn, hence you have under steer not over steer.
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post #24 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 09:45 PM
 
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I am not trying to imply RL is not a good car. I think it is an excellent car if you combine all the reliability and value into it. My family has been driving honda since 1996. I agree with you on why honda decides not to use force induction to generate more hp on any model.
I jsut feel like RL could be something different.
It seems like honda is playing safe with RL, which I do not like.
I mean you have NSX that can compete with Lambo and other super cars, why not have a sports sedan that outperform entire BMW 5 series, excluding M5 and entire MB E class, excluding E55.
If you look down the market, you have M35 AWD, and M45, and GS 430.
It just seems RL will face a very tough competition and I would hate to see RL face the same fate like last time.
BTW, RL was the car that I was going to get for my dad until I saw the C/D review. Maybe I should never read it:-)
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post #25 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proe
I will assume you know nothing about the AWD cars, and weight transfer during cornering. Let me say this, most AWD cars on dry pavement has under steer as a defining dynamic trait.
Reason for under steer is because AWD has grips on all four tires, not jsut two tires, so you will not be able to transfer your weight as you can with RWD. And that is why it is pretty hard or almost impossible to drift AWD cars as you can relatively easy with RWD.
As you enter the corner, the weight is transfered to you front outer tire, and it is getting harder and harder to turn, hence you have under steer not over steer.
I assume you know nothing about SH-AWD then. That is the whole brilliance behind its concept. It allows you to transfer the torque to the outside wheel which allows you to rotate the car and go through the corner. As you enter the corner, the SH-AWD transfers torque to the rear wheels, esp the outside rear wheel so you don't get understeer. The RL does not significantly understeer during hard cornering. For reference goto http://www.caranddriver.com

*i see that you have already read car and driver =P What exactly about the review turned you off? It was almost completely positive.

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post #26 of 53 Old 11-30-04, 11:21 PM
 
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Nice thread, but I think people ( ie. proe ) should provide some facts to back-up their argument.
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post #27 of 53 Old 12-01-04, 12:48 AM
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I quote Car and Driver: "Out on the road, the RL glides through bends without a trace of plow, the steering wheel a taut linkage that is lightly weighted but alive with information. The more stupid the corner speed, the more the system shows its stuff. Stomp the gas, and the back end starts pushing, the rear rotating, the smiles widening. It's not silly oversteer—it's Super-Handling!"

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post #28 of 53 Old 12-01-04, 10:40 AM
 
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I only pointed out heavy-ass AWD cars like audi s4 will under steer not over steer when you push it to limit. That is all. I do not know where you got the idea that I am talking about SHAWD. If you read previous post, you will know, but I guess you are one of those people who love to jump to the conclusion without carefully exam all the facts. I forgive you as we should practice kindness towards idiots, as we all are idiots from time to time.
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post #29 of 53 Old 12-01-04, 10:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proe
I will assume you know nothing about the AWD cars, and weight transfer during cornering. Let me say this, most AWD cars on dry pavement has under steer as a defining dynamic trait.
Reason for under steer is because AWD has grips on all four tires, not jsut two tires, so you will not be able to transfer your weight as you can with RWD. And that is why it is pretty hard or almost impossible to drift AWD cars as you can relatively easy with RWD.
As you enter the corner, the weight is transfered to you front outer tire, and it is getting harder and harder to turn, hence you have under steer not over steer.
I know exactly what you are saying. In fact, the Audi Quattro is probably best describes what you are saying, especially since it has something like a 63/37 front weight bias. However, it appears that every review of the RL thus far has described a car that is vey neutral around corners with minimal to no understeer, and also they report they can even get the rear end to rotate around a corner. As they report, not tail happy like a RWD car, but a slight oversteer nonetheless.

I will also say I am not up to par on all the other AWD systems out there, but the RL one directs up to 70% of its power/torque to the rear wheels when needed. It also directs up to 100% of the torque from side to side. Not only that, it directs power in any combination within its parameters mentioned above to any wheel independtly. So it actively directs power between the front and rear and side to side as the computer sees fit. As far as I knew, other AWD systems when it came to side to side torque transfer is equal and did not independently vary that side torque transfer between the front and rear wheels.

Quote:
As you enter the corner, the weight is transfered to you front outer tire, and it is getting harder and harder to turn, hence you have under steer not over steer.
To address that part, according to reviews and technical data, the SH-AWD system pulls nearly all power front the front wheel, and directs nearly all the power to the back outer wheel, it also pulls torque/power away from the inner wheels and also speeds up the outer wheels rotation in relation to the inner whees thus allowing the car to rotate without understeer like convensional FWD or even AWD cars. Personally I would have had a hard time believe how good this system really workds in the real workd, but so far all the testing and reviews have shown this to be true. I'm sure there is a point where the system just can't recover, but it appears that point is quite high.

So, as far as I see it, even with my lack of knowledge with all the worlds AWD systems, it really doesn't matter since it works in the RL. So they may be a little late. It definately is better than Audi's Quattro system as far as paper and real world feel as far as I could tell from my test drives. I don't judge the car on how it supposed to act. I judge it on how it actually performs. Everything about the RL suggests it should act and perform like a hevy FWD pig. It has a moderate front heavy bias of 58/42, it has a trasvers mounted engine which is mostly responsible for that front heavy weight bias and supposed to introduce torque steer due to uneven half shafts. It has a small 3.5 V6 that most feel is underrated since V8 power is the norm. However, when you drive the car none of that comes to fruition except maybe a moderate accelaration compated to other V8s. I do have to say the 300HP V6 RL out accelerates my Lexus SC400 with a 4.0 V8.

PS. I just read your last post about AWD in the Audi and not the SH-AWD. Sorry for the long post.


jinnyedit: i just fixed a quote command

Last edited by jinny; 12-01-04 at 12:25 PM.
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post #30 of 53 Old 12-01-04, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proe
I only pointed out heavy-ass AWD cars like audi s4 will under steer not over steer when you push it to limit. That is all. I do not know where you got the idea that I am talking about SHAWD. If you read previous post, you will know, but I guess you are one of those people who love to jump to the conclusion without carefully exam all the facts. I forgive you as we should practice kindness towards idiots, as we all are idiots from time to time.
While I appreciate your willingness to “shoot the breeze” and engage in a bit of healthy banter, please try to be courteous to your fellow members here.

Statements like “I guess you are one of those people who love to jump to the conclusion without carefully exam all the facts …” can be a little inflammatory… let alone the fact that it seems a bit ironic, in this case, since you have also apparently done some conclusion jumping, in regards to SHawd. please try to keep your comments focused on the topic. If you think someone’s statement/response is incorrect, then address the perceived incorrectness, rather than make judgments on the member’s integrity or character… no “jumping to conclusions” if you will.

I’m not saying that you, or anyone else, have done anything horrid… yet. I’m just trying to nip any potential flaming in the bud…

Thanks

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Last edited by jinny; 12-01-04 at 12:32 PM.
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