[The General]

bralio, have you owned/driven a Lexus?

What's your point?

 

[4bearhug]

I would purchase ACURA again this is the 4th car that I purchased brand new.
The other 3 before the TL were HONDA models 1980 Prelude, 90 ACCORD, 94 ACCORD. I wish ACURA would get up to speed with putting the newer features in the cars a little faster. I love the HID headlights in my car I do alot of night road driving. I would like to see the Night Vision setup like on the new Benz. ACURA already has been testing it so what are they waiting for. Also put out a Gas/Electric hybrid RL/TL & other models. They could put AWD in other models like TL & TSX. Everybody does not want a MDX Suv just to get AWD.

That's an interesting comment about putting new features in their cars. I'd hadn't really thought about it. I personally thought that Toyota/Lexus was a bit slow to add some of the simple creature comforts to their cars. I just looked at the 02 GS300 and still no controls on the steering wheel for cruise,radio,etc. Why is that? Most other cars have had those since the mid 90's. And the cup holders are almost a joke on the Toy/Lexus from 96-02. They are probably better in the new cars, but they were really slow to get something functional in their cars. I guess every brand has its strengths/weaknesses. These are minor items and it appears that you're talking about major offerings so I agree that Acura is limited in their range of offerings that you describe.

On a different note, I would appreciate any thoughts on the TL regarding excessive rattles in the interior and excessive vibration at certain speeds due to shift point(harmonic vibration). How common are these problems in the 04TL? I'm considering buying an 04TL versus an 02 GS300. They are very different vehicles and both have their strengths. I'm getting some concern for the talk about rattles, build quality, and vibration in the TL. These are not issues in the GS. My preference is for the TL because of the styling, but I really want reliability. I always buy used and drive for 5-6 years. My current RL has 142,000 trouble free miles so reliability is probably #1. Any personal experience or opinions are welcome.

 

[Tampa RL]

Quality vs. Features?

I think it is simply the marketing approach each manufacturer decides upon to identify themselves from each other.

Although there is fierce competition to 'one up' each other, and they will follow the buyers demands, ulltimately if they did not make clear decisions as to what to manufacture uniquely, then all cars and manufactuers would be the same.

My personal observations with Toyota and Lexus has been focused on the refinement / reliablility of their vehicles. Most of the newer technology has been added by competitive pressure more than by trying to be leading edge. I personally like that Toyota / Lexus tend to deliver it right, tried and true (not all cases, obviously). I call Camrys 'refrigerators on wheels'. Like an appliance, just plug em in, and they work. Lexus takes the refinement to the nth degree and where comfortable adds technology to be market competitive.

With Honda / Acura, the value and content (along with reliability) seems to be more of their approach. I find Hondas 'smart', well balanced value, performance, efficiency, safety, reliability, etc. Acura is well into the technology race with the TL being a dramatic statement of that philosophy. I don't find Honda / Acura as refined as Toyota/Lexus, but I find them more technologically advanced, more edgey and lean more towards engines & performance than Toyota / Lexus.

I also believe all manufacturers are slipping on quality. I believe there is more a race of content and new technology to impress the buyer (while riding on a reputation of quality). 10 years ago, it was ALL about quality in brand reputation. Today you hear more about the newest features, content, performance and value. The references of quality seem to be based on historic reputation. If the focus is to stuff as mutch gadgetry in the vehicle impresses the buyer, then maybe a slight in quality will go unnoticed? I do know a rattle in my TL is noticed and it does affect my perception of a 'premium' brand & quality.

Obviously, the race to add content does not typically allow for this technology to be optimumly integrated or tried and true. It opens the door for quality issues (at least a perception of quality). Technology is impressive, but in our leading edge thirst, it may not be reliable. An IT associate of mine often reminds me that leading edge technology is fragile. An interesting paradox I see affecting our automobiles (including high tech assembly).

But like most people, I want it all. I want the edginess of the TL. I want all the wizbang features. I also want my interior assembled by Lexus (for the Acura price)! :uhh:

 

[The General]

I think it is simply the marketing approach each manufacturer decides upon to identify themselves from each other.

Although there is fierce competition to 'one up' each other, and they will follow the buyers demands, ulltimately if they did not make clear decisions as to what to manufacture uniquely, then all cars and manufactuers would be the same.

My personal observations with Toyota and Lexus has been focused on the refinement / reliablility of their vehicles. Most of the newer technology has been added by competitive pressure more than by trying to be leading edge. I personally like that Toyota / Lexus tend to deliver it right, tried and true (not all cases, obviously). I call Camrys 'refrigerators on wheels'. Like an appliance, just plug em in, and they work. Lexus takes the refinement to the nth degree and where comfortable adds technology to be market competitive.

With Honda / Acura, the value and content (along with reliability) seems to be more of their approach. I find Hondas 'smart', well balanced value, performance, efficiency, safety, reliability, etc. Acura is well into the technology race with the TL being a dramatic statement of that philosophy. I don't find Honda / Acura as refined as Toyota/Lexus, but I find them more technologically advanced, more edgey and lean more towards engines & performance than Toyota / Lexus.

I also believe all manufacturers are slipping on quality. I believe there is more a race of content and new technology to impress the buyer (while riding on a reputation of quality). 10 years ago, it was ALL about quality in brand reputation. Today you hear more about the newest features, content, performance and value. The references of quality seem to be based on historic reputation. If the focus is to stuff as mutch gadgetry in the vehicle impresses the buyer, then maybe a slight in quality will go unnoticed? I do know a rattle in my TL is noticed and it does affect my perception of a 'premium' brand & quality.

Obviously, the race to add content does not typically allow for this technology to be optimumly integrated or tried and true. It opens the door for quality issues (at least a perception of quality). Technology is impressive, but in our leading edge thirst, it may not be reliable. An IT associate of mine often reminds me that leading edge technology is fragile. An interesting paradox I see affecting our automobiles (including high tech assembly).

But like most people, I want it all. I want the edginess off the TL. I want all the wizbang features. I also want my interior assembled by Lexus (for the Acura price)! :uhh:

I agree with everything you've stated here. As for the last paragraph, keep on dreamin'. :bash:

 

[Tampa RL]

I agree with everything you've stated here. As for the last paragraph, keep on dreamin'. :bash:

Thanks for that wakeup call General! <saluting> :wavey:

I kinda figured sneeking a TL onto a Lexus assembly line would not go unnoticed.

 

[bralio]

To answer your question Enigma, yes I have driven a Lexus - but I've not owned one, no.

And I most certainly have to agree with TampaTL's comments as well
A) because he's right, and
B) because he's local

 

[Tampa RL]

To answer your question Enigma, yes I have driven a Lexus - but I've not owned one, no.

And I most certainly have to agree with TampaTL's comments as well
A) because he's right, and
B) because he's local

That was the FIRST time I have EVER been told I was right! <marking desktop calendar>...

OK, If I am local, I will buy the 1st round. Who else is in? :beerchug:

 

[enigma]

What's your point?

:naughty:

 

[pianoman41]

I bought my '02 TL-S in May 2001 and I just bought my '05 MDX in July 2005. So I guess my answer would be yes.

 

[budman231]

Great feedback...

I am happy to see that the 80/20 rule applies here. If 8 out of 10 owners would buy Acura again that says something about the brand. I agree that no car/brand is perfect. One person's dream is on another persons "Don't Buy" list. So far I'm very happy with my 05 TL. I think most cars made these days will be good to you if you take care of it with proper Maintenance asthetically and mechanically. My cars always look thousands of miles newer than they are. Usually the body style changes tip people off to how old my car is, not the appearance inside or out.
So far I think Acura is a great brand. It's not perfect but overall it's a joy to drive. The dealer I go to is awesome so that makes the whole experience even better. Happy Driving...

 

[nastinupe1]

I am happy to see that the 80/20 rule applies here. If 8 out of 10 owners would buy Acura again that says something about the brand. I agree that no car/brand is perfect. One person's dream is on another persons "Don't Buy" list. So far I'm very happy with my 05 TL. I think most cars made these days will be good to you if you take care of it with proper Maintenance asthetically and mechanically. My cars always look thousands of miles newer than they are. Usually the body style changes tip people off to how old my car is, not the appearance inside or out.
So far I think Acura is a great brand. It's not perfect but overall it's a joy to drive. The dealer I go to is awesome so that makes the whole experience even better. Happy Driving...

#1. This forum is biased because we are Acura/ TL lovers so the numbers are inflated. If you account for the lump of the REAL population, this number would be below 50%... way below 50%

#2. What people say and what people do are two totally different things.

Here's proof:

Lexus Retains Most Owners

The latest Customer Retention study from J.D. Power and Associates finds that Lexus is the brand that keeps most customers when the time comes to purchase a new vehicle. The three-year-old study found that Lexus increased its repeat-customer rate; 63 percent of its buyers choose another Lexus, against an industry average of 49.6 percent. Lexus is followed in the rankings by Toyota (62.6%), Honda (59.9%), Chevrolet (57.3%) and Hyundai (56.3%), respectively. At the bottom of the list is Suzuki, which holds on to only 28.6 percent of its customers, although the numbers improved by 38 percent this year, Power notes. The more than 177,000 consumers polled for the new survey pointed out that things gone wrong with the previous vehicle were the biggest deterrent to buying a second vehicle from the same brand, correlating to strong finishes in Power's related Dependability Study.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Auto_News/Marketing_Report_Dec_12_2005.S175.A9733.html




Toyota
60.6%

Lexus
59.5%

Chevrolet
58.9%

Hyundai
57.6%

Honda
55.2%

Ford
54.5%

Cadillac
52.8%

Mercedes-Benz
51.6%

BMW
51.4%

Kia
50.9%

INDUSTRY AVERAGE
48.4%

Jaguar
48.3%

Subaru
48.0%

Audi
46.0%

Saturn
45.0%

Dodge
44.5%

Buick
44.4%

GMC
44.1%

Lincoln
44.0%

Nissan
42.3%

Porsche
41.8%

Land Rover
41.3%

Acura
39.8%

Chrysler
39.5%

Volvo
39.3%

Jeep
38.3%

Mercury
34.4%

Volkswagen
33.7%

Pontiac
33.5%

Mitsubishi
31.8%

Infiniti
31.4%

Suzuki
31.4%

Saab
30.5%

Mazda
23.1%

Isuzu
7.0%

Oldsmobile
4.9%

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Edition/Daily_Edition_Dec_10_2004.S173.A7824.html

 

[The General]

Wow, I hope Acura uses this info wisely!

 

[nastinupe1]

Yea... Acura is below Huandi, Kia, Chevy, Ford, Dodge, and suprisingly Land Rover and Jaguar.

The only LUXURY car brands that rate below Acura are Infiniti and Saab. That is amazing considering that Acura is a Honda product.

Acura really needs to spruce up their image. The RL needs to be a better car and their customer service really needs to improve. Acura also needs a "dream car". A car that everyone loves that is not so hardcore like the NSX was. Lexus has the SC, which every woman adores and Infiniti has the GS Coupe. Caddy has the Escalade, BMW has the 6 Convertible, Mercedes has the SL and CLS, Audi doesn't have one.

I think that the next RL needs to be larger than life. A car bigger than an LS and S and 7. A read head turner. Something so technologically advanced that people will love it once they enter it. VW tried to do this with the Phateon and failed miserabily because it was the little brother to Audi which already had a car called the A8, but this is difference because its' Acura and not Honda. Acura could pull this off because Honda is a car company that has a lot of people who make 6 figure salaries purchase thier vehichles. Honda customers usually buy WAY below their means because they just don't feel like spending more. But what if Honda convinced them that they should? What if Honda introduced a car with a V6 Hybrid engine that got 40 MPG and had 350 hp? What if Honda introduced new technology in this car like a Navi system that used 3d imaging from sattlite photos to guide you instead of colored lines? What if Honda made a car with a built in MP3 player and a computer that you could talk to and recognized you by your voice and weight? What if this computer knew your personal settings? What if this computer could drive for you while you slept? What if the car had night vision built into the windows? What if the car had break resistant glass? What if this car had all of these great things!!! Acura needs to think ahead and make a car so advanced that it would go against Rolls Royce and Bently but cost 1/3 the price. A car so wonderful that it would be considered the best car ever made, the most technologically advanced car ever made, the car of the future, the polomarch of all cars to come. Light years ahead of anything out there. Safety measures like foam instead of airbags, roll over bars that pop out of the car to stop the car from being smashed, chemicals that mix into the gas tank in a bad accident to neutralize and change the chemical composition of the gas so that it won't explode, I could go on forever.

 

[Tampa RL]

wow...impressive.

I'd settle for less rattles and a glovebox door aligned properly. :sqnteek:

 

[spyder5786]

Yea... Acura is below Huandi, Kia, Chevy, Ford, Dodge, and suprisingly Land Rover and Jaguar.

The only LUXURY car brands that rate below Acura are Infiniti and Saab. That is amazing considering that Acura is a Honda product.

Acura really needs to spruce up their image. The RL needs to be a better car and their customer service really needs to improve. Acura also needs a "dream car". A car that everyone loves that is not so hardcore like the NSX was. Lexus has the SC, which every woman adores and Infiniti has the GS Coupe. Caddy has the Escalade, BMW has the 6 Convertible, Mercedes has the SL and CLS, Audi doesn't have one.

I think that the next RL needs to be larger than life. A car bigger than an LS and S and 7. A read head turner. Something so technologically advanced that people will love it once they enter it. VW tried to do this with the Phateon and failed miserabily because it was the little brother to Audi which already had a car called the A8, but this is difference because its' Acura and not Honda. Acura could pull this off because Honda is a car company that has a lot of people who make 6 figure salaries purchase thier vehichles. Honda customers usually buy WAY below their means because they just don't feel like spending more. But what if Honda convinced them that they should? What if Honda introduced a car with a V6 Hybrid engine that got 40 MPG and had 350 hp? What if Honda introduced new technology in this car like a Navi system that used 3d imaging from sattlite photos to guide you instead of colored lines? What if Honda made a car with a built in MP3 player and a computer that you could talk to and recognized you by your voice and weight? What if this computer knew your personal settings? What if this computer could drive for you while you slept? What if the car had night vision built into the windows? What if the car had break resistant glass? What if this car had all of these great things!!! Acura needs to think ahead and make a car so advanced that it would go against Rolls Royce and Bently but cost 1/3 the price. A car so wonderful that it would be considered the best car ever made, the most technologically advanced car ever made, the car of the future, the polomarch of all cars to come. Light years ahead of anything out there. Safety measures like foam instead of airbags, roll over bars that pop out of the car to stop the car from being smashed, chemicals that mix into the gas tank in a bad accident to neutralize and change the chemical composition of the gas so that it won't explode, I could go on forever.

It's called a halo car first of all.

And Acura will have one in '08, supposedly. The v10 NSX successor.

 

[TLS 66]

MVR 155 where do you get your service done at, i live in Arlington hts and not happy with my dealer.

 

[nastinupe1]

It's called a halo car first of all.

And Acura will have one in '08, supposedly. The v10 NSX successor.

I know that its called a "halo" car, and I know about the successor to the NSX, but like I said above, Acura's "halo" car does not need to be so hard core like the NSX is. The NSX is for an EXTREMELY small nitch of consumers. I would like Acura's Halo car to be a car that everyone would like to see in their garage, but just can't afford it.

A perfect example of this is RR. If RR ever came out with a $60,000 car EVERYONE and their mama would want one because of the reputation and name. Everyone really wants a phateom (however you spell it), but if they made a baby phateom with a RR tag (instead of a Chrysler badge) people would eat it up. It's because of RR making a Halo car that people would react like this. Just like the H3. It is selling really well because people who can't afford an H2 can just get a look alike with the same name plate.

 

[MVR 155]

MVR 155 where do you get your service done at, i live in Arlington hts and not happy with my dealer.

Arlington Acura in Palatine, I usually talk to Devon and my car is worked on by a tech named Matt, nothing but outstanding service, no questions asked.

 

[TLS 66]

thanks MVR155

Thanks ,i got my car from Mullers woodfield a 2002 TLS , and at the 24 month check they told me the battery was bad, Ya right 12000 miles never ran the battery down. Well it's over 4 years old same battery still going strong, i don't trust those people. Palatine thats Bob Rorrman right?

 

[MVR 155]

Thanks ,i got my car from Mullers woodfield a 2002 TLS , and at the 24 month check they told me the battery was bad, Ya right 12000 miles never ran the battery down. Well it's over 4 years old same battery still going strong, i don't trust those people. Palatine thats Bob Rorrman right?

I went to Woodfield before I bought my 03 TL-S, I wanted to drive a 6 speed and an auto back to back for comparison, the sales people there seemed too busy sitting on thier asses doing nothing instead of helping me.