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Transmission oil cooler
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Hey Austin,
Call up your dealer and check to see if they would "approve" this mod. I talked to several service managers in Houston area and they all against the mod in one way or another. Some even said that warranty will be void. Personally, since my car is underwarranty, I wouldn't even put this mod in. If it breaks, it'll be fixed free...but as soon as the warranty period expires, it'll go in.
Call up your dealer and check to see if they would "approve" this mod. I talked to several service managers in Houston area and they all against the mod in one way or another. Some even said that warranty will be void. Personally, since my car is underwarranty, I wouldn't even put this mod in. If it breaks, it'll be fixed free...but as soon as the warranty period expires, it'll go in.
i talked to my service manager about this mod as well...he gave me an educated resonse saying, "the tranny does not need a cooler unless its under a real heavy load all the time, such as carrying a lot of passengers and luggage all the time or pulling jetskis and other things w/a trailer all the time."...he recommended against this on my new new tranny which shifts so fucking smoothly
:bow:...i now see it as pointless to me...Shyne:king:
:bow:...i now see it as pointless to me...Shyne:king:
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I actually talked to the floor service manager here at John Eagle Acura (another one) and he applauded the mod (but emphasized that it must be installed correctly) and it wouldn't interfere with my warranty issues. I've search the Internet on this subject and TONS of people had done this mod....basically heat is what killing lots of trannies out there. I have yet to see a negative comment about the cooler damaging the tranny (unless you live in the North Pole where it is just too damn cold..but I'm in Texas..it is super freaking hot down here).
Anyways, I'm now 100% convinced to put one in myself. If I ever do have tranny problem, I think can take the cooler out in 30 mins or so (hopefully) before taking the car into the dealer (just to be safe). But again, if the cooler doesn't help...it CAN"T hurt.
Austin519, I'm thinking of fabricating a metal bar of some sort to support the cooler instead of using the zipties cuz it might put too much stress on the radiator/condensor from all the vibration. What do you think?
Anyways, I'm now 100% convinced to put one in myself. If I ever do have tranny problem, I think can take the cooler out in 30 mins or so (hopefully) before taking the car into the dealer (just to be safe). But again, if the cooler doesn't help...it CAN"T hurt.
Austin519, I'm thinking of fabricating a metal bar of some sort to support the cooler instead of using the zipties cuz it might put too much stress on the radiator/condensor from all the vibration. What do you think?
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I just put one in. I used the 70268 which is a little bigger than the 70255. I put it between the radiator and the condensor since I don't want the cooler to reduce the efficiency of my a/c (but with the bigger size would make up for the loss of cooling after the condensor). Anyhow, it took me 3 hrs or so but it's a perfect fitment in there. Did a couple of flush and man, after 6K miles, tranny fluid looks brownish comparing to the new cherry red fluid...
If you are not going to install a cooler, at least do your car a favor and flush it with new fluid!!!
If you are not going to install a cooler, at least do your car a favor and flush it with new fluid!!!
I think I've heard that adding a tranny cooler would void your warranty too. Logically, that should not be the case, but I bet that some dealers would like to argue on this point.
A Tustin Acura mechanic mentioned to me that they also think heat may be a parital cause of failure for the trannies. They said that the stock tranny cooler just doesn't seem to do a good job and the too hot fluid just gets fried, looses its lubricating qualities, and wears away the seals. The service advisor advised that we should just get more frequent tranny oil changes. But I think it absurd if we would need to get tranny oil changes at the same interval as our engine oil changes.
Oh well. I'm enjoying the loaner car right now. Hope my TL gets its tranny back soon.
A Tustin Acura mechanic mentioned to me that they also think heat may be a parital cause of failure for the trannies. They said that the stock tranny cooler just doesn't seem to do a good job and the too hot fluid just gets fried, looses its lubricating qualities, and wears away the seals. The service advisor advised that we should just get more frequent tranny oil changes. But I think it absurd if we would need to get tranny oil changes at the same interval as our engine oil changes.
Oh well. I'm enjoying the loaner car right now. Hope my TL gets its tranny back soon.
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You can pick up a Hayden one from Pepboys. It is the same one that B&M sells...I bought it from summitracing for $46 plus 7 shipping (handling fee) so it comes out to $53 plus some change. Pepboys sells it for $49 plus tax should roughly around $55 or soemthing..but you get it right away. If I knew it's the same one, I would have bought it there.patrick said:
And also, yes, the 99TL should have the same gap/spacing as the 2002TL model. First time install should be around 3 hrs...but you can probably do it in 1 1/2 hr or so 2nd time around. As far as dealer goes, you can take the cooler out and put everything back to stock config in around 30 mins...so I'm not too worry about the dealer at this point. I am more concerning about my tranny.
randomwalk101:
That doesn't sound like a bad idea at all...though I think that the support will be fine as long as you really pull those ties tight. But if you want to spend the time and effort I definitely think that would be at least as good of a solution and down the road possibly better.
Okay let me say a few important things...
1) After talking with district managers etc...they approve the mod. However, the very first thing that Acura will do is try to blame your tranny cooler if your tranny fails. They do have to prove it however, and that will be impossible to do.
2) I haven't posted my own DIY with tons of pics yet because I'm hoping I can get Acura to give me a whole new tranny before I do this and I don't want there to be any issues halting that. I have installed the cooler, I just haven't hooked it up...so hopefully you'll see a full nice DIY soon.
3) Randomwalk101 I would suggest against your larger size cooler and anyone else buying the larger size if they plan on putting it anywhere but in the back, after talking with B&M. You don't want a bigger cooler, though you would think bigger is better, because you don't want to overcool your fluid. The B&M cooler has in it a valve that cuts half of the cooler off if the fluid isn't hot enough, and you are circumventing that by getting a larger cooler and thus, with the valve closed, a larger half used. The recommended size is the 255, I would stick with that. I'm even a bit concerned with your larger size...even though it's between the other two coolers...
4) This cooler is definitely not bad for the car...and for anyone planning on the supercharger it is required by Comptech, in fact the Comptech cooler is a refitted B&M. They're running one on their SC'ed CL as we speak.
5) Do NOT use Redline ATF. Two reasons. First, I spoke with a Redline rep who said just like Redline, Honda's ATF is a full syn fluid...formulated for their stuff. Neither Honda nor Redline recommends using their ATF with Honda engines. The stock fluid...surprisingly enough, is the preferred choice. Go call Redline if you don't believe me...they will tell you the same thing.
6) A Hayden is NOT the same as B&M. Haydens do NOT have this valve that I speak of, and thus aren't as temperature specific. And as I said before, you don't want to overcool your fluid.
Austin519
That doesn't sound like a bad idea at all...though I think that the support will be fine as long as you really pull those ties tight. But if you want to spend the time and effort I definitely think that would be at least as good of a solution and down the road possibly better.
Okay let me say a few important things...
1) After talking with district managers etc...they approve the mod. However, the very first thing that Acura will do is try to blame your tranny cooler if your tranny fails. They do have to prove it however, and that will be impossible to do.
2) I haven't posted my own DIY with tons of pics yet because I'm hoping I can get Acura to give me a whole new tranny before I do this and I don't want there to be any issues halting that. I have installed the cooler, I just haven't hooked it up...so hopefully you'll see a full nice DIY soon.
3) Randomwalk101 I would suggest against your larger size cooler and anyone else buying the larger size if they plan on putting it anywhere but in the back, after talking with B&M. You don't want a bigger cooler, though you would think bigger is better, because you don't want to overcool your fluid. The B&M cooler has in it a valve that cuts half of the cooler off if the fluid isn't hot enough, and you are circumventing that by getting a larger cooler and thus, with the valve closed, a larger half used. The recommended size is the 255, I would stick with that. I'm even a bit concerned with your larger size...even though it's between the other two coolers...
4) This cooler is definitely not bad for the car...and for anyone planning on the supercharger it is required by Comptech, in fact the Comptech cooler is a refitted B&M. They're running one on their SC'ed CL as we speak.
5) Do NOT use Redline ATF. Two reasons. First, I spoke with a Redline rep who said just like Redline, Honda's ATF is a full syn fluid...formulated for their stuff. Neither Honda nor Redline recommends using their ATF with Honda engines. The stock fluid...surprisingly enough, is the preferred choice. Go call Redline if you don't believe me...they will tell you the same thing.
6) A Hayden is NOT the same as B&M. Haydens do NOT have this valve that I speak of, and thus aren't as temperature specific. And as I said before, you don't want to overcool your fluid.
Austin519
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Austin, quick question. When you say "255" what model of B&M are you referring to? I'm looking at a flyer that is advertising B&M tranny coolers, and they list the following:Austin519 said:
70265 15,000 lbs (polished) 11" x 4.5" x 1.5"
70264 24,000 lbs (polished) 11" x 6" x 1.5"
70266 28,000 lbs (polished) 11" x 8" x 1.5"
I'm assuming that the "lbs" refer to the cooling capacity of the cooler? Where does the "255" fall in when compared to what I listed above? Thanks.
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Called up a local auto parts store that advertised the 70265. I can get it for Cdn $75.50, and not including misc. parts. The 15,000 lbs refer to the towing capacity - the parts advisor mentioned that this is more than sufficient for my needs. When will we ever tow anything that heavy? :dunno:
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B FOR 3: No, I use Honda ATF. I would not use anything else!
Austin514: Funny because if you take your B&M cooler to Pepboys and pull out a Hayden and look at it, it is EXACTLY the same..down to the lettering on the cooler itself!!! I seriously doubt that B&M manufactures their own stuffs.. I think both companies bought their cooler from the same source and put their own label on it. As for this valve thing, I think the Hayden also has it since it is the exact same one as B&M...if it doesn't then I doubt that B&M has one....again, look at your B&M box, it said nothing about this valve....
Also the sizing is a little off on the website. The cooler is actually 2" larger than the size stated. The 70255, according to the website is 11x5x 1/2 but the actual size is 11 x 7 x 1/2. The 70268 on website is 11 x 7 x 1/2 but actual size is 11 x 8 1/2 x 1/2. Again, this was written on the B&M box itself (correct size).
I'm not too worry about "over cooling" issue. Perhaps up North it might be the problem but I'm in Texas..it's freaking hot here...outside temp is around 95-100 plus...inside the engine is 200+ easily. And the cooler is in the middle of two heat source (radiator and condensor)...Over cooling from where I live is remotely nil. My car with the cooler and flushed runs extremely smooth now. I'm planning to keep it there...but if the tranny decides to quit still, before taking it to the dealer, I'll yank out the cooler anyways to be safe..I don't care if the dealer approve or not (they approved it already though)...but just wanted to be on the safe side and don't want any "complication".
Patrick:
Here is the link to the "web" sizing:
http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/Transmission/transmission_cooler.htm
do NOT use Redline ATF. Honda specifically said not to use anything else. Redline also said not to (of course Redline wants to you buy their stuffs but if they say no, that means serious business!!) Comptech is basically a BS company in my opinion...they're basically a small shop and partner up with Honda. A lot of stuffs they sells are rebadged stuffs (like their suspension are rebadged Eibach springs and Koni's shocks) and jack up the price big time. Their supercharger is from Maguson I believe...they do make some stuffs like intake (ice box), sways, rear tie bars and such but again, those are non-brainer stuffs.
Their decision to use Redline on their cooler is doubtful....they just going fancy (sup-up) route to make themselves "different" to make some $$$ IN MY OPINION. I would just stick with Honda ATF !!!
Austin514: Funny because if you take your B&M cooler to Pepboys and pull out a Hayden and look at it, it is EXACTLY the same..down to the lettering on the cooler itself!!! I seriously doubt that B&M manufactures their own stuffs.. I think both companies bought their cooler from the same source and put their own label on it. As for this valve thing, I think the Hayden also has it since it is the exact same one as B&M...if it doesn't then I doubt that B&M has one....again, look at your B&M box, it said nothing about this valve....
Also the sizing is a little off on the website. The cooler is actually 2" larger than the size stated. The 70255, according to the website is 11x5x 1/2 but the actual size is 11 x 7 x 1/2. The 70268 on website is 11 x 7 x 1/2 but actual size is 11 x 8 1/2 x 1/2. Again, this was written on the B&M box itself (correct size).
I'm not too worry about "over cooling" issue. Perhaps up North it might be the problem but I'm in Texas..it's freaking hot here...outside temp is around 95-100 plus...inside the engine is 200+ easily. And the cooler is in the middle of two heat source (radiator and condensor)...Over cooling from where I live is remotely nil. My car with the cooler and flushed runs extremely smooth now. I'm planning to keep it there...but if the tranny decides to quit still, before taking it to the dealer, I'll yank out the cooler anyways to be safe..I don't care if the dealer approve or not (they approved it already though)...but just wanted to be on the safe side and don't want any "complication".
Patrick:
Here is the link to the "web" sizing:
http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/Transmission/transmission_cooler.htm
do NOT use Redline ATF. Honda specifically said not to use anything else. Redline also said not to (of course Redline wants to you buy their stuffs but if they say no, that means serious business!!) Comptech is basically a BS company in my opinion...they're basically a small shop and partner up with Honda. A lot of stuffs they sells are rebadged stuffs (like their suspension are rebadged Eibach springs and Koni's shocks) and jack up the price big time. Their supercharger is from Maguson I believe...they do make some stuffs like intake (ice box), sways, rear tie bars and such but again, those are non-brainer stuffs.
Their decision to use Redline on their cooler is doubtful....they just going fancy (sup-up) route to make themselves "different" to make some $$$ IN MY OPINION. I would just stick with Honda ATF !!!
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BTW, I ordered my B&M from www.summitracing.com It's the cheapest I've found.
patrick:
http://store.summitracing.com/product.asp?d=15&s=258&p=221&searchtype=ecat
That's the site I got mine from. I think the 265 may actually be fine, that's about the same as the 255.
B FOR 3:
No...I'm sure they're not wrong...I am curious though because I heard from a Redline and a Comptech rep not to...this is a good Q. I will have to call back and ask why if it's not preferable are they running it...
randomwalk101:
You may be totally right...I have never looked at a Hayden. This is what I heard from a guy who did a comparison of the two...and he may very well be incorrect. And you're a Texan too eh? Yeah I'm not worried about overcooling out there either with 110 ambient temperatures But some of these other guys I do worry about...plus I worry about us in the winter.
And when you say your dealer approved it...what'd they say? Because mine gave me crap about it.
Austin519
http://store.summitracing.com/product.asp?d=15&s=258&p=221&searchtype=ecat
That's the site I got mine from. I think the 265 may actually be fine, that's about the same as the 255.
B FOR 3:
No...I'm sure they're not wrong...I am curious though because I heard from a Redline and a Comptech rep not to...this is a good Q. I will have to call back and ask why if it's not preferable are they running it...
randomwalk101:
You may be totally right...I have never looked at a Hayden. This is what I heard from a guy who did a comparison of the two...and he may very well be incorrect. And you're a Texan too eh? Yeah I'm not worried about overcooling out there either with 110 ambient temperatures
But some of these other guys I do worry about...plus I worry about us in the winter.And when you say your dealer approved it...what'd they say? Because mine gave me crap about it.
Austin519
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Austin519, I talked to several service advisors, they told me that the temperature is not the reason for the break down. I then talked to several Master Tech in the back and they said probably the heat kills the fluid which then promotes further break down (inaddition to the super-smooth shifting mechanism that starts it all). Anyways, I then talked to the service dept manager and he said YES, definately put one in...couldn't hurt..but then he stressed that it must be done right. I installed mine and had one of the tech checked and approved. But honestly, if it does break down, I'll take the cooler off before taking the car in to be sure..I hope that day will never happen.
I did a "super hi-tech test" over here and stuck a food thermometer into the return line of the cooler and fluid is 190-200F after cooled (depending on where the probe is stucked). Temp outside today is 80F. In the winter, Houston temp. should be around 30-40F..which probably put the fluid around 170-190F..I don't think I have to worry about the fluid overcooling problem too much here in Texas.
I did a "super hi-tech test" over here and stuck a food thermometer into the return line of the cooler and fluid is 190-200F after cooled (depending on where the probe is stucked). Temp outside today is 80F. In the winter, Houston temp. should be around 30-40F..which probably put the fluid around 170-190F..I don't think I have to worry about the fluid overcooling problem too much here in Texas.
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